Jane's Posts

Mar 7 2004 10:39 am

So, what that means for us is that I now have rare kid-free nights and he has all kid-free nights. He's becoming kind of annoyed with the whole change of scene.

Up to here, I'm with you.

My feeling is that I have this small amount of time left to be the parent, and I damn well better be one. To me, that means being the home base person--being around most of the time in the evenings so I can keep at least loose tabs on my son's coming and going. My gut says that he's not quite a child, and not quite an adult and still needs to know that I am the established person who he knows is around. If he has a house full of friends coming and going, I don't feel right about going out and leaving them. I don't feel right about going out when someone else's kids are here for the night, even if all the kids are in and out of the house all evening.

Here you lose me. Getting Lee to go out at night is not a challenge. Whether DH and I hang out at home or go out, I have my cell. I'm fine with leaving her home, too. If we want to go out and we're not comfortable with her friends, I tell her she can't have friends over that night.

My SO has pretty much decided that he doesn't like to come over when my son's around, because they're pretty different in temperament and lifestyles.

Fine, fine, mature choice.

But, now he's disappointed that we don't spend enough time together.

Well, yeah, you're not. Deb, the rest is nutty. Whether your son visits his father is absolutely none of your SO's business. I wouldn't even discuss it with him. Especially if he's pissed at you because he doesn't see his own kids.

But you not putting enough time into your relationship with SO is totally his business. I cannot believe that you can't find a second night a week to spend with him. What about Friday? Or Sunday? Or whatever night you both happen to be free?

I hate feeling in the middle of conflict.

What do you mean by this?

jane

Mar 07 2004 11:09 am

I guess one of my questions is, am I being an overcautious parent?

No, no. But you're lying to yourself if you think you're doing this because you're protecting your son. You're pissed as hell at your SO.

IME, in MY life, this is a bad fight to have. What you are arguing about is *not* the problem. And really, it's unfair to your son to pretend it is. If you're angry that SO does not meet your needs, fight about that. If you feel he bullies you, fight about that. If you resent that he expects you to meet his needs, fight about that.

I don't know how to counter my SOs disappointment without feeling defensive about it.

Maybe feel offensive about it. Maybe write him a letter you're not going to send. You know how you can sort of channel yourself? One thing leads to another to another, and you find yourself saying things you didn't even know you were thinking? Or, of course, counselling.

Do you two discuss where you want your relationship to go from here? I understand why you would not get married with all those teen boys around. But did you have plans for after they grew up?

Because your SO is childless and single and hooks up with his GF once a week. I can't criticize him for wanting something more. And there is no way I would buy that torture time with my DH and his teen kid counted as "Time For Us." What I am hearing from you is that you don't want to put any more effort into your relationship right now than you already are. I'm also getting whiffs of you aren't sure that you will want to in the future. I get the feeling that you feel you have to protect yourself.

jane

Mar 07 2004 2:23 pm

You're probably exactly right for at least part of this. I feel like I put a huge effort into this for a long time. I spent countless hours doing family-type things with him and his kids. I did all the hosting, cooking, etc. at my house whenever we got together. I put a lot of effort into trying to be flexible around his schedule with his kids, around his work and school schedule when he was in grad school, around his lack of money when he was the poor one, and around trying to gently back off when he'd tell me he wasn't ready to move in whatever direction we seemed to be headed. I feel like he's rejected full commitment to me piece-by-piece. I've spent so much time making sure I've sufficiently backed off, that now I have trouble seeing us at all sometimes.

Okay, but.

I'm feeling around in the dark here. There's something I'm not getting. Over the years from time to time you've mentioned that SO backed out of your wedding plans. Your position has always been that it was probably for the best.

Deb, if you feel that your needs haven't been met over the years, bitch slap yourself. Then, go in strong with: My needs *will* be met in this relationship, or there won't be one. What you're doing now is bitching because he did manage to get his needs met and because he's pushing to get them met now. That's not the approach I'd take, because that's not the problem.

I can't figure out how to say this right. I just finished power-reading The Hobbit for my book club, and I keep thinking in terms of trolls and elves and dwarves.

I always regret it when I come at one of these conflicts sideways. Half way through I realize that everything I've said up to that point has nothing to do with what I'm mad about; 3/4 of the way through I realize that I'm really mad at myself.

Your consideration for SO's situtation in the past has nothing to do with anything. Whether SO likes DS or not has nothing with anything. What you need to know is how SO will act. Regardless of how he feels about your son (or anything else), does SO consider your feelings and wishes to be significantly important to suck it up sometimes. Apparently, you don't feel he does enough, and he feels he does too much.

I don't want to reject my family (my son) and I don't feel like he likes him very much. I worry about what that would mean in the future.

I'll tell you something, Deb. I'm not happy about the next part of this. But it's got to be said. I think you're using your son as a shield. Parenting is pretext here. You're not arguing you *want* to be home with your son; you're arguing that you *need* to. Your SO doesn't believe that, and neither do I. Of course, if you're like me, you could argue to the death on that point, and never get to the real issue, like maybe why SO is giving you shit for doing what you *want* to do or why he shows no respect for your commitments or the other relationships in your life, or why you don't feel he puts as much into your relationship with him as he expects from you.

I'm not trying to make this about me, but I do relate it to my experience. I feel like an idiot when I realize that I have been fighting tooth and nail over something I really don't believe. It's always, always because there is something unpalatable about saying what I do believe. I don't know if you don't want to tell your SO that you just aren't interested in seeing him that much anymore, or you've got some problem with saying, "because want it, that's why, damn it" or you're challenged in the area of deciding when your own interests come first and pretext is safer. I'm just saying, pick solid terrain for your battles.

jane

Mar 07 2004 7:39 pm

We've made some moves in the right direction. We've decided that a weekend away every month or so would be a good thing. We both realize how we avoid conflict, and are going to make an effort to say what's on our minds as it comes up.

Excellent, excellent, and excellent.

I still believe that the parenting aspect is a real issue for me, and I have to treat it that way to be honest with myself.

Right. Look, about earlier... I don't explain this stuff well.

People very often do not argue about what is bothering them. They argue about what they both feel comfortable arguing about. That you would choose this place to take a stand makes perfect sense to me. Of course you can't leave your son home alone all night if you don't feel comfortable. Why your SO is choosing this place is not at all clear to me.

I had a good afternoon. I enjoyed it.

Also excellent.

jane

Mar 09 2004 12:20 pm

That confuses me too because I thought he wanted to spend more time with you - that's not being by himself.

I guess this translates into preferring being by himself over joining in with my family time. When he wants to do something, he'll happily do it by himself, which isn't a bad thing, but I feel that he's backed off from a relationship with the "whole me" preferring one with the "childfree me." He's kind of used to living in a self-centered world, I think.

I don't know, though. I don't feel comfortable with contrasting the *whole* you with the *childfree* you. And I'm not sure it has anything to do with being self-centered.

I think a mate should support you in all your roles. I'm not sure it's reasonable to expect him to get into all of them, though. You're different people with different interests, different lives.

I don't particularly enjoy family time with other people's families. I don't hang out with my friends in their houses when their kids are coming in and out. I don't like the distraction, the divided attention, the regular interruptions. It's frustrating. I like to be able to focus on my friend.

jane

Mar 09 2004 10:25 pm

I don't mean selfish, but centered around himself, not outwardly centered. Does that even make sense?

No. But that might be because I'm the same way and don't see it.

But, as much as he's feeling adrift because I'm still very involved in the parenting role, I'm feeling adrift because he's backing away from that part of my life. Hence the confusion, or at least part of the confusion.

People handle kids leaving the nest in different ways, I think. Besides, his kids have left sooner than yours. He's in a different stage of life. Maybe he misses them and doesn't want to be around other parents whose kids haven't left yet. You know, like when you break up and you can't stand being around people in love.

Plus, I believe that the more you back away and ask others to back away, the less meaningful a relationship becomes. It becomes mostly about being different people with different lives. That's when I start my inner self-protection behavior.

Yeah, this I don't get. You *are* different people with different lives. You, for example, are still actively parenting a child in the home. He's past that stage now. I guess I just don't see how it's backing away. He's just a step ahead of you. Maybe it's significant that the step he has gone is not one you're not entirely looking forward to taking yourself.

I guess I expect more assimilation in a relationship than I would with a friend, though.

I'm not sure I do. I'm not sure I know what you mean, though.

jane

Mar 11 2004 10:55 pm

The ideal for me is when the relationship has both room for maintaining the differences in your lives *plus* a lot of good mingling and mixing of everything that makes up each individual's life

Yeah, I'm not like that. I don't want a lot of mingling and mixing of everything. For example, DH is not allowed to mention sports in my presence. I just walk away.

Or take ASSP. DH is aware that I like Anne and Melissa, but he has no idea who is who, and probably doesn't realize they're different people. In fact, I'm not sure he knows Melissa and Vicki are different people.
Work stuff we touch base on and listen politely when the other is fired up about something.
We share interests to different degrees.

jane