Jane's Posts

Sep 11 1998 12:00 am

[Should Congress change the Constitution to include English as the official language of the United States?]

Yes.
And they should do it soon and cease the nonsense of teaching children to learn or retain a foreign language in their new native land.

If it were the language of "their new native land," (sic) then [he] couldn't have posed the question. If the children are in the United States and speaking a particular language, how can it be "foreign?" You try learning geography in Hungarian.

jane

Sep 12 1998 12:00 am

[If it were the language of "their new native land," (sic) then Charles couldn't have posed the question. If the children are in the United States and speaking a particular language, how can it be "foreign?" You try learning geography in Hungarian.]

Usually I find your posts logical and very often true but, except for the "native" part where I admit to having made a tiny faux pas, the part about "how can a particular language be foreign?" went right over my clean shaven head! Isn't Spanish a foreign language in the United States? It's not a Spanish immigrant I'm speaking of, rather what is the definition of a foreign language? Now I've confused myself: is a Mexican, say, who has settled into the U.S. and not yet learned English or gained citizenship a foreigner? Aren't I called an Alien in Ireland? That sounds even worse to me!

Sorry I sicced you.

No, Spanish is not a foreign language in this country. It has been spoken here since Spain invaded the North and South American continents. Spanish-speaking people have been born, and have lived and died here for hundreds of years.

The United States has no official language. Unlike Europe, this continent was populated by immigrants from other countries within the last 400 years. People brought their native languages with them and continued to use them here. I imagine they did this because 1) they still considered themselves citizens of the colonizing country and 2) the native languages like Micmac were totally different from their own. Then there is the basic rule of historical linguistics: whoever has the bigger guns keeps their language.

In Canada, French has become the predominant language in part of the country, while English is most common elsewhere. The geographical distribution is more scattered in the United States. Puerto Ricans' native language is Spanish. Many people along the Canadian border speak French. Near the Mexican border, many speak Spanish. Portuguese is the most common native language in an area that comprises all of southeastern Massachusetts and eastern Rhode Island. Since the war in Vietnam, there have been large Vietnamese communities in most major cities here. Native Americans continue to speak the languages they spoke half a millennium ago. I list these only as examples; almost every language of the world is spoken somewhere in the United States.

Some English speakers would like all the native Spanish, Portuguese, Italian, Mandarin, Vietnamese, Russian, French, Micmac, etc. speakers to change their language to English. How arrogant! IMHO, those who wants a single language enough to change the Constitution, should be willing to give up their own. I believe that this push to make English the official language reflects the deeper problems of bigotry, ethnocentrism, and xenophobia within our society.

jane
(handing soapbox to you)

Sep 13 1998 12:00 am

I had to look that one up to see what you did to me and the nearest I could find was siccative. You dried me? No, that can't be it. Please forward definition of sicced. :-)

Sic (sic) v. 1) to attack an earlier poster in a public news group by placing (sic) after an error in that person's post - Cf. dis.

[... almost every language of the world is spoken somewhere in the United States.]

That's true and I think it is there that you ruined your argument. If we are not to have a Tower of Babel, we must agree on a language.

I just don't buy this. I enjoy the diversity. If you (3rd person) choose any one language in a society where many citizens speak another, you automatically make them second class citizens. When you give up your language, you lose your culture. IMHO, just about the only thing that this country can brag about is its diversity.

This attempt to make English the national language is just a knee-jerk reaction to the frustrations of living in a world society. Even if the proposal were adopted, the problem would not be solved. No matter how much a person wants everyone to speak English, it is not going to happen. We still need to communicate with the French-, Spanish-, Japanese-, and Farsi-speaking people of the world on a daily basis. It is cruel as well as futile to take this frustration out on Americans who do not speak English. One would do far better to promote development of better and smaller babelfish, so that we can carry the key to world communication in the palms of our hands.

What you said earlier, however, isn't quite correct. Although it is not in the U.S. Constitution, English was early-on decided by the founding fathers of the country to the standard, if not the official, language.

German was strongly considered and rejected. Spanish was never even considered nor were the myriad other languages on the face of this green earth. English, thank God, won out. English is the language of the United States of America. No other language can make that claim.

So what? Things have changed. If we stuck will all the Founding Fathers' decisions, then we would still have slavery and only white men would be allowed to vote. The United States is no longer a tiny little area full of English and German colonists. You may have noticed that the country has expanded substantially in the last 200 years and now includes many areas in which other languages are spoken. Spanish is so prevalent in many parts of the country that proficiency is de rigueur for anyone in frequent contact with the public. IMO, many English speakers in these areas push for your proposal because they would rather make everyone else learn English than bother to learn Spanish themselves.

[Some English speakers would like all the native Spanish, Portuguese, Italian, Mandarin, Vietnamese, Russian, French, Micmac, etc. speakers to change their language to English. How arrogant!]

Not at all, my fine fluent friend. I'd like all of them to LEARN English, not reject their native language. That's not too much to ask. The French speak French, Italians speak Italian, Germans speak German, und so weider.

But you must see the trap you have led yourself into, Charles. Americans cannot speak "American." Your saying that English is the American language doesn't make it so.

I agree that it is often helpful for Americans to learn English, as it increases their range of motion within our society. I would encourage any American to do so. Of course, I think a minimal education requires proficiency in at least two languages. Personally, I think that all Americans should know either English or Spanish, but that's just my opinion. I certainly would not vote for such a law.

jane